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tv   Geraldo at Large  FOX News  August 3, 2013 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT

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because we're looking out for you. >> tonight, now is the tonight, now is the single best time and best opportunity to defeat obamacare. >> appealing the affordable care act is wrong. it was wrong the first time. it is wrong the 31st time. >> if the president isn't going to implement the loss, we're not going to fund it. >> welcome to groundhog day in the house of representatives. >> this law is not working. you can take democrats' word for it, you can take republicans' word for it. the house is going to repeal the act for the 43rd time, do you realize that? >> we're wasting the country's
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time for taking something like 40-some votes in repeeling obamacare is not a jobs plan. >> the mean, nasty republicans are trying to shut down obamacare. we have to put up the fight. >> we're wasting taxpayer dollars and time to find any possible reading of the law, a technicality, to take away health care from the people who need it most. >> i don't think you can say you're against obamacare if you vote for a budget that funds it. i think it's outrageous that the president and his allies are threatening to shut down the american government if it doesn't fund obamacare. obamacare is not more important than the united states. >> they defined the house's efforts to fund the dce as hype. >> for them to thrust this on the american people when they're having a hard time finding work is the wrong approach, absolutely the wrong approach. >> now is the time, now when it really matters. this is the time to stop
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obamacare from hurting more americans across the country. >> welcome to hannity. it is considered the cornerstone of the president's domestic policy agenda, and now the debate over obamacare has returned to the forefront of american politics. efforts to defend the controversial law now raging on capitol hill. doctors are threatening to close down their practices. many business owners, they're facing an uncertain time and future thanks to the mountains of new and very costly regulations, and with with all that in mind, tonight for the hour we have assembled a studio audience of doctors, health care executives, political km commentato commentators, business owners and much more. some support obamacare, others are staunch proponents of the law, but in the next 60 minutes, we are all under one roof right here in the new york studios. welcome aboard. thank you for being here. all right. now, dr. siegel, the president made some promises about obamacare. you can keep your own plan, and
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every family on average $2500 less, and we're not going to have death panels. is that true? >> no, it's not true. i live obamacare every day in the examining room, sean, and you know what i see? we got them more expensive insurance. we promised them more doctors and nurses, instead we have more irs agents. this entire law is about expanded insurance too expens e expensive, we can't afford it, our patients can't afford it, and the ones that told me who were on the fringe that said to me, i can't wait until this law comes because i'm going to have coverage and be able to see you, now they're ending up with part-time jobs and worrying if they're going to have insurance at all. >> steve forbes, you are one of the best money men in the country. you understand the finances of this. will businesses really not be able to hire full-time workers? are they cutting back on full-time workers as a result of not wanting to meet that 30-hour requirement? >> if you're a small business, absolutely. your margins are small, therefore, you don't have the ability if you have a large
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profit margin to do this, and in the face of uncertainty, you hold back and see how actually this thing is going to unfold. bigger companies, our company, is suddenly facing taxes this year and next year that we didn't really know about and now we're learning about it. so everybody is getting hit by unanticipated cost and just sheer uncertainty, and that hurts hiring. >> sally, you support this law. >> i do. first of all, look, we needed to do something in this country about runaway costs of health insurance as well as the 35 million uninsured people. president obama put forward a plan. it was a plan that came originally from republicans. they liked it when it was a republican plan, and it's done things that the american people -- >> whoa, what do you mean republicans pushed this plan? >> it came from heritage america and john mccain. since then it's done things the american people like. they like their kids can stay on their insurance longer, they like the rebates they've gotten that preexisting conditions won't throw people off insurance. it's popular, and this effort to keep repaealing it again and
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again and guenin stead of doing the business that actually needs done, sad. >> you read every page. how many times? >> i read this law, i'm author of "beating obamacare," and i would say this. the positive reforms that sally just mentioned are in the first 30 pages of this 2,572-page law, and virtually everyone in congress would support making those reforms. but the next president of the united states should take a pledge that he or she will not sign any bill into law if it's over 20 pages or contains all this gobbledy-gook. because it means we don't have a democracy, and the washington politicians keep saying they want comprehensive health reform, comprehensive immigration reform -- >> how much does that thing weigh, by the way? >> do you know what comprehensive means, sean? it means unread. they covered our entire
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government in 18 pajges. 20 pages should be enough. >> in california, 164%, 88% in ohio. >> the actuary shown is a big deal, because if you look at how the law was calculated and that's why you need to put the brakes on, the unintended economic consequences of obamacare are a disaster. what employers are doing to switch to part-time, what insurance companies are doing to raise premiums and gain the system, what doctors are doing to reject medicare and what acos have now filled in the experiment, all the assumptions on which the law was passed saying that it's actually going to save money are completely flawed. so the cbo needs to go back and recalculate that because the economics are wrong math. >> the original estimate was 900, the president -- th latest cbo number i saw was 300 trillion and the numbers go higher. is that a broken promise? >> we need to go back to this point about the actuaries because the law is called the
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affordable care act, but it drives up prices in florida, texas, and california. nearly every state in the union. the cost of purchased insurance is going to go up by 150%. >> and why is it going up? because these premiums are going to include $100 billion in taxes when you write that check for your premium. a lot of it is not for your health care, it's for new tax hikes. >> monica, go ahead. >> let's take a step back and remember what this is really about. let's take a look at the big picture. obama in 2008 spoke about the fundamental transformation of the nation. health care was his greatest lever in order to affect thie e. that's why he did that immediately. obamacare was never about health care, health insurance or health reform. it was and still is about government control. when you look at the history of territorial regimes, one of the things they do when they first
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seize power is to seize power of the health care system for one simple reason. if the government controls your health care, the government controls you, period. >> we're going to get into this more deeply. i'm going to bring up the case of that 10-year-old girl sarah murnaghan. >> obamacare insists this will be furnded on americans, men and werjs that's t women, that's the only chance to fund this. >> talking about the cost, a california study just came out that 25 and 26-year-olds are going to be paying an increase of 80 to 100% in their premiums, and that's to cover older people. but will older people get better access? another myth was if you got sick, you would go to the emergency room and you would get covered. but guess what? our emergency rooms are overcrowded. >> why are you shaking your head at dr. siegel? >> i want to say one more point to sally. this was called the baucus bill, alex baucus, and he's now calling it a train wreck.
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>> let's address a lot of the things that are in here. the premiums, the cbo has lowered it. it's been considered an independent analysis of premiums and premiums are going down, and a lot of numbers you're quoting are from republican states that are trying to make a case against obamacare. >> there are only four states that had lower rates, am i right? new york was one of them. >> it's gone down dramatically, but point number two, point number two, monica's point would be really interesting if the president had pushed for an actual single payer health insurance program in which the government took over health insurance. in this case the government has helped the marketplace work better to allow more companies come into places like new york where they have excluded. this is private insurance, and if you don't like this idea, i'd like it hear another solution. i'd like to hear another solution. >> what company is coming to new york? >> what would you grade the government on social security and our lock box? what would you grade them?
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>> i don't know, about 60% of americans don't want to get rid of social security, and when it was passed, sathe same people sd it was socialism. >> didn't those same people said they would squander it and be in jail? >> the larger issue here is, look -- >> why do you trust the government when they have failed -- we have 17 trillion in debt, 15 million americans on food stamps, and social security and medicare are going bankrupt. >> we drove here on a highway, we have electricity, we have this cable station because america protects our airwaves. it does good things, too. >> if obama had his way, i would not be standing here today. >> medicare, social security, all these things, when they were passed, they said that's socialism. >> barack obama has been on the record over many years saying the ultimate objective is single payer, and in fact when this was going through and a lot of left-leaning democrats were very up in arms that we didn't have
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single payer, barack obama picked up the phone and told them they were ultimately going to get there. senator tom harkin said this is just a starter home, we're going to get there. all the issues that were raised here, this is a way to accelerate the process to get us to full socialized medicine. >> stay there. we have a lot of time. we're going to get this in in the full hour. we have a lot to talk about. coming up next, ichl going 'm g take you to the front lines on the battle to defend obamacare. i'm going to take you to two physicians who plan on stopping this law from being fully implemented. we check back in with this rowdy group of studio audience. we're going to do obamacare by the numbers. stay with us. no! (mom vo) you never know what life's gonna throw at you. if i gotta wear clothes, you gotta wear clothes. (mom vo) that's why i got a subaru. i just pulled up. he did what now? no he's never done that before!
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mr. lazarus, i know you love the affordable care act, but isn't it wrong to fund something we don't have the money for?
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i know i need to yield back, but the power is a different question. the right and responsibility under the constitution, wouldn't you say that is clearly within the four squares of our constitution? >> well, i think particularly the word responsibility is putting a spin on it that i don't think is necessary, and i wouldn't necessarily want to add to. but we certainly have the power. >> that was legal expert and obamacare supporter simon lazarus testifying on capitol hill this week, and even he was forced to admit that congress has the legal authority to cut off funding for this train wreck that is headed our way. joining us to talk about that and much more and what the legislative branch could do to prevent this law from being fully i mplementedimplemented. gentlemen, welcome to the program. >> thanks for having us. >> leads talk about mike lee, ted cruz, rand paul, marco rubio and yourself, you think it's constitutional that you defund
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this? >> i think it's important we defund this. i don't know if that goes far enough, but i supported ted cruz' bill to defund the health care law, but remember, there was ten tax increases for this bill and 16 of them are already being collected. we have to rip this thing out by the roots, and that goes with not just defunding it but also repealing all the other parts of the law as well. >> congressman, your thoughts? >> sean, in your lead-in, you talked about the people talked about the deal that congress has taken on. actually, seven of those have been passed and signed into law by the president. so bit by bit, we have been eroding this. we're coming up to a pivot point on the 30th of september. the funding for the federal government runs out, has to be re-upped. the next day the open enrollment period occurs in the exchanges. i would submit to you this is not going to be working by october 1st, and oh, by the way, on december 15 or thereabouts,
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people in my state of texas will begin to see what their actual rates are to purchase the health care in those exchanges. and there is going to be some sticker shock. >> let me ask you, senator, about the president. he unilaterally decided, even though it's a law of the land, that he was going to unilaterally decide that they were -- he was going to delay the employer mandate. not the individual mandate. doesn't he have to go through congress? don't we have a system of checks and balances and co-equal branches of government? doesn't he have to go to congress for that? >> i believe he absolutely does. i would like to delay and actually repeal all of those mandates, specifically the individual mandate that says everybody in the country has to buy a government-approved insurance. what people wanted in health care reform and what i want as a doctor is affordable care and access to care, and people get neither under this health care law, which is why unions are baling on this. they've come out against the president. so many democrats have spoken out against it.
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you've had democrats in the house voting to extend this delay of the employer mandate by another year as well as the individual mandate. this is unraveling, and it's not just republicans. it's independents, it's democrats, it's unions. sean, even the state of massachusetts, the democrats there have put in for a waiver so they don't have to live under the health care law. and another reason to defund this is the city of detroit, which is bankrupt, they want to fund some of their bailout by dumping people onto obamacare and the funding stream. >> congressmen, there are some of your colleagues that seem timid. they think maybe this is the wrong strategy. i had a debate earlier this week with carl rove. he thinks it's the worst law that was passed in our time. i agree with him. and he said it was sold and p d predicated on a whole bunch of lies told by the american people, but he thinks strategically it should be done
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different, not through the efforts of defunding. every conservative i know wants republicans to defund it. where are your colleagues on this? >> it may literally be the only tool in the tool box to try to keep the train wreck from happening. and, you know, look, you see the train wreck coming down the track, aren't you going to try to do something to keep that from occurring? the law was never popular, it's never enjoyed a popular support. it's going to get worse when people understand -- right now you go to in my state and try to click on a few boxes to try to see what it's going to cost in you the open enrollment period, and you come to a page that says this page is empty. september 15 when people go to that page and see how much the premium has increased, a young man aged 30, non-smoker, right now that premium average in the state of texas last january was $360. i guarantee you it's going up. and it will be worse in february
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of 2014 leading into the 2014 elections. the democrats will be clamorring for this thing to be defunded and repealed. >> the president's delay of the employer mandate, it's going to cost us $12 billion. maybe in a world of trillion-dollar deficits, that doesn't sound like a lot of money. that's a lot of money where i come from. >> that's because all of those businesses that the incentives were to dump employees onto the exchange and just pay the fine, those fines aren't going to be collected. but i will predict to you tonight, sean, that just as we had the 4th of july surprise with this delay of the employer man at a time, i will predict to you there will be additional surprises coming out, because this administration can see clearly that this law is unraveling in front of their eyes. >> all right, guys. thank you very much for being with us. appreciate your insight. >> thanks for having me. coming up next on this special edition of "hannity," straight ahead. our cost-cutting measures
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mirror most of the remss in the senate bill which bring up our deficit by $1 trillion in the next deficit because we're spending our health care dollars more wisely. >> we put together a lengthy highlight reel of obama's broken promises. i'll ask our studio audience to respond to this embarrassing tape as we continue our special edition of "hannity." what? wait, wait, wait... no, no, no, wait, wait. (baby crying) so you can deposit a check... with the touch of a finger. so you can arrange a transfer in the blink of an eye. so you can help make a bond... i got it. that lasts a lifetime. the chase mobile app. so you can. it's been a happy union. he does laundry, and i do the cleaning. there's only two of us... how much dirt can we manufacture? more than you think. very little. [ doorbell rings ] [ lee ] let's have a look, morty.
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nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change your doctor or the coverage you have. that's why my plan builds on the system where most get their insurance from their employer. if you like your plan, you can keep your plan. we will start by reducing premiums by as much as $2500 per family. that's why i met with representatives of insurance and
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drug companies, doctors and hospitals and labor unions who are pledging to do their part to reduce health care costs. our cost-cutting measures mirror most proposals in the current senate bill which reduces most people's premiums and brings down our deficit by up to $1 trillion over the next decade because we're spending our health care dollars more wisely. >> unfortunately, this was only a one-hour special. otherwise that highlight reel of broken promises could have gone on all night long. joining me now to debate the truth about obamacare, we go back to our studio audience. one of the things we've learned is that 30 million americans still will remain uninsured. people aren't going to be able to keep their plan, and that $2500 savings, most people in 46 states aren't going to see that. >> yeah, let's understand our system before the affordable care act was far from perfect. we had two decades of double digit health inflation. we had two decades of health care costs exceeding real wage increases, so clearly, something needed to be done. there are some very good parts
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of this bill that move us from a fee for service system into something other, population based, that awards quality over quantity. we have to change the system, and while we might not like some parts of the bill, we ought to be able to maintain those that we do. >> well, look, sean, the bottom line is this bill is not ready, okay? that's why they delayed the employer mandate, that's why they delayed the employer reporting requirements. they already scrapped things like the class act, big elements of this bill. but the heart of the exchange is they're not ready to go. they want to force people to buy insurance from a system that is going to be a complete and utter mess. there are 12% of americans who think keeping the employer mandate intact for next year is the right thing to do. the overwhelming majority want it repealed or delayed for a year. this is the president who says i'm the regular guy, i'm for fairness. what could be more fundamental fairness to give rhethe relief small businesses that obama gave
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the corporation? >> how much would it benefit the senate to defund? hands up. steve forbes, i don't see your hand up. you're surprising me. >> i believe they should try the duh fu defunding r defunding, but i don't think they should go to the wall on it, because i think they need to dekree congress. >> the president does not have the constitutional authority to pick and choose which parts of a law he enforces. the law says the mandate begins january 1st, so congress actually has a constitutional duty to defund. the constitution says it's part of checks and balances, and federal is 58. james madison said when the president overreaches and tries to grab more power than the constitution allows, it is the duty of congress to defund, to withhold the power of the purse. >> let me go to kesha and then i'm going to get back to mr. forbes.
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>> az smas a small business own was very excited to hear about obamacare, but i will admit that one of the biggest problems is people don't understand it. i speak to everyday people and they don't understand what the premiums will be, what do i get out of this law, and looking at the binder, it's clear it's too much. but i think the intent is good. >> i fully agree. i thought i was here for politicians behaving badly, but when i found out why i was here, i started asking around. do you understand obamacare? >> we did that last week. >> so i'm catching up. nobody really understands it. people are not -- people not in this room. >> we do understand it's going to cost more. we do understand it's still going to be 30 million uninsured. >> i think those a little bit knowledgeable understand it's going to cost us a lot of money that we don't have to spend right now. >> steve, what i'm surprised about you is if republicans don't fight on this and their political considerations, what do they stand for? >> no, it's not fighting, it's
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how you fight and the way that you set the foundation to win this thing in 2014 and remove its legitimacy. the house finally is going to do some things right. they voted on the employer mandate, they voted on the individual mandate. now they're going to go after the irs, pass these bills, send them to the senate, have the senate reject them and say, here's what they want, here's what we have. do it right. there is also a very interesting lawsuit coming out of oklahoma. the bill says the government cannot give subsidies to people on exchanges unless the state puts the exchange -- unless the state puts the exchange in itself. so 34 states haven't done that. that, in effect, defunds the whole thing. support that oklahoma lawsuit. >> also in the d.c. federal district court case. if you can topple that and take away -- the manor from heaven is the tax credit assistance payments. if obamacare doesn't have that,
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you can throw away mandates, you can throw away all the rules. but if it can't deliver the bucks to people, that's where it dries up. that's the choke point in the end game. the problem with defunding is don't take a hostage if you're not ready to shoot it. >> this law is just not ready for prime time. one of the things they most wanted to do was get young people enrolled in the exchanges. that's why the president is talking about getting the mba and the national football players. >> $7 million we're going to spend on advertising? >> to tell us how much we should love obamacare. that's what's happening with small businesses. they're having to put people on part-time to avoid the fines, but individuals, especially healthy young people, when they see the size of the premium that they're going to have to pay for health insurance, they're going to say, $30,000? $95 for a fine? give me a break. >> first of all, these young people are home, anyway, because they don't have jobs. >> they don't have jobs, that's exactly right.
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>> their moms and dads would love to get them out of the house. sir. >> as a flexible housing person, the industry is growing quite rapidly because of the uncertainty out there. businesses are not going to hire people -- >> this is good for your business. >> it's good for our business but not good for america, and that's the important thing. are we more interested in our business or america? i'm more interested in america than i am in our own business. 94% of all the companies, over 50 employees had health insurance. so there's only 6% of them that was going to be affected, anyway. >> i worked at manpower once in my early 20s. they gave me a sickle and they said, see that hill with all that grass? go cut it. i needed health insurance after that. >> we have 80,000 employees a day. >> that's amazing. we have to take a break. i promise we'll get to everybody, and coming up next,
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the campaign to derail obamacare is now taking over the airwaves. we're going to play for you the very latest television ad to target the law. head to our site share your thoughts or join us on twitter @seanhannity. could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. mmmhmmm...everybody knows that. well, did you know that old macdonald was a really bad speller? your word is...cow. cow. cow. c...o...w... ...e...i...e...i...o. [buzzer] dangnabbit. geico. fifteen minutes could save you...well, you know.
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that is a brand new television ad from the conservative group, americans for prosperity. the president of that group, tim phillips, is right here in our studio audience. >> we want to make sure that folks who sign up for this terrible law they have all the information. we want them to understand their costs will go up, so this is just part of an effort. we'll have thousands of volunteers in communities, in neighborhoods talking to these younger americans who are the target of obamacare.
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they're being counted on to fund it. we need to make sure they understand exactly what they're signing up for so hopefully they won't sign up for it. >> they use the back door. remember, scott brown was supposed to be the 41st vote against obamacare? they used the reconciliation process. it was corrupt from the beginning and we lost out. yes -- sorry. >> greg hollis. let me help you. >> yes. >> i'm a business owner, and i've been hearing all this talk -- >> what kind of business. do you want to plug it? >> government contracts. we provide security throughout the united states. i've heard there is uncertainty, and maybe there is, because as a business owner, i am required to provide an insurance carrier, so i'm not responsible for paying it, actually, for the employee, so there is no way a small business who understands what they're doing is going to sensibly say, well, i'm just going to cut back to 52 employees down to 48.
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>> i can tell you who you are. you keep reading stories about mcdonald's, burger king, whitecastle. >> no informed business person is going to make that decision. >> that's wrong. it adds $1.79 an hour every hour to the cost of hiring an employee. >> i'm talking about people who understand what they're talking about. i have insurance carriers knocking on my door trying to explain to me and explain to my hr department exactly what's going on, exactly where we are with the obamacare -- >> what about these companies speaking out saying they can't afford the insurance, and as a result we read one article after another -- if you read the wall street journal, if you read the "new york times." even jimmy hoffa, jr. in his letter to the president, is he wrong? >> i'm not familiar with the letter. he may be wrong, but at the crux of this political football that we're doing is we want to, as an advanced society, be able to have people to have affordable
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insurance. >> but the problem is the cbo says 30 million americans with this plan will still be uninsured. wasn't that one of the big promises of obamacare? >> right, and that was the negotiation down from the single payer system. >> i have a solution, and it would be personal savings accounts. >> personal responsibility would be really important here, and extending entitlements, very comprehensive insurance. i don't actually agree that americans are confused. i think after two years of this debate or three years now, in doctors' offices all across the country, physicians are overwhelmed, they're almost to a doctor not happy with this law, and patients are aware of it. we're the engines driving this, and if you can't get in to see us, we're ordering very expensive tests that are variable prices, there is no way we can afford it, there is no way we can keep practicing medicine the way we want to. >> the american college of physicians, the american medical association, they all support it. >> i'm a business owner. i have 120 employees. i pay for 100% of my employees'
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families' insurance. i'm a book author. i have 120 employees, about 300 on the total plan. i'm a mid-year renewal. it comes up in september. blue cross/blue shield has increased our premiums 331%, sean. >> what are you going to do? >> i'm looking for options. >> they'll have a more inferior plan, right? they won't be able to offer as many benefits. >> we'll have to increase deductibles, and at the end of the day, they're going to be in worse shape. and i don't like that. >> it's not because of obamacare, that's the beauty. >> what employers are doing -- >> all you have to look at is the white house is in panic mode right now. they know that public opinion on this is shattered, even in the president's own home state, in illinois, in democratic congressional districts there, this thing is unpopular. people want it repealed. just the other day, just this week, barack obama went down to
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capitol hill for a birthday party with nancy pelosi, they had cake together, and you know what he said there? >> it's good for your health? >> he said his biggest goal is to get nancy pelosi, speaker of the house again, to protect obamacare. he knows this is crumbling and that's why the next election is critical. >> i want to see them defund it, i want them to engage the american people, fight back against the propaganda. >> we have to show we're going to lose. >> one thing i want to talk about when we get back is the issue of death panels in the case of -- >> sorry. >> -- in the case of 10-year-old sarah murnaghan. we're going to come back with our studio audience. it's another look at obamacare by the numbers, tonight on "hannity." for pain and swelling? apply cold therapy in the first 24 hours.
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the administration has the we should have the authority to simply decline to implement a provision of the law required. >> no. the executive branch is required to faithfully administer the laws that are passed by congress
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provided those laws are constitutional, and that is true of this administration and prior administrations. >> that was a law professor testifying before the house oversight committee earlier this week, and as the expert witness made very clear, the president does not have the authority to delay the implementation of the employer mandate or any other provision of obamacare. we continue now with our studio audience. let me get to the question -- sally hates the word death panel, so i'll focus on that. >> i just hate untruths in general, but go ahead. >> sarah murnaghan was on the transplant list for ages, a judge said the adult transplant list would work, and they would not grant her a waiver. >> it took health and human services to dictate how doctors
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treat even privately insured patients. even if you bought the health plan with your own money, the government is still going to be calling some of the shots, and like you pointed out, some doctors are going to be trapped between doing what's right for a patient and avoiding a government penalty. >> you guys jump in. >> sean, this law is really about sacrifices and someone is going to have to make a sacrifice. there is no way we can cover everyone. i'm a physician and small business owner and i can tell you that i meet people every day who don't have insurance coverage and these people are not worried about their premiums, they're worried about having insurance overall. if we don't cover everyone or most of the people, these people are going to come to the e.r. and the costs are going to be ten times as much, anyway. so we have to make the sacrifice. >> i feel like we're in the soviet union. but here's the problem. you know, europe came up with this great idea. i'll use great britain as an example. they have a government rationing
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body, they have their national health services. and let's say a woman comes in, needs a hip transplant, she's older age, beyond her life expectancy. does she get that hip transplant? no, she does not. no, she does not. does she get that knee replacement? no, she does not. >> she only gets it if she has a buddy in congress or a friend in the government bureaucracy, then you get it. americans know that cronieism is rampant and the guys with connections will get the treatment. >> what about one of the congress men in canada and he needed heartwork and he went to miami? >> i have a friend in canada and it takes him six months to get in to the doctor, let alone get care. they don't like the plan they have, but they don't have any choice. >> this is what the president made the mistake of, that by providing coverage for every individual that it automatically
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translates into getting health care, and it doesn't. they're not synonymous. so the public perception is by getting basic insurance, why was the employer mandate deferred? because the employer, the small business, could provide the least amount of benefit, and if the consumer opts not to take that and go to the exchange, guess what? they're going to pay more. and they can't afford to pay more. which is why this loophole is what caused this stir to say, wait a minute. this doesn't work. >> sam? >> yeah, i just want to say something else. we have small business owners on the panel. we work with my company with a ton of small businesses. and the biggest challenge -- >> what company are you in? >> we do sports training. we work with a number of sports, ticket sales, training development. >> you're a rich republican. >> i try. but i want to say one thing. the biggest challenge with small business owners right now and what's happening with everyone in washington and the news cycle is owners are taking their minds off generating revenue. and that's one thing that i
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don't think it gets missed that small business owners -- this thing is going to be multiplied by owners taking their eyes off the ball with focusing on their business and things to generate revenue every day. >> first of all, president now we come forward to the independent payment advisory board, and it turns out to be part of nonpracticing physicians and even howard dean is saying that the ipad will be a problem. private insurance follows medicare and this is what we are facing. >> let's be clear -- >> one second. >> all the small companies will go to 29 hour work week or get them under 49 hours and put them on temporary payroll. >> over half this law is paid for with cuts to med carry. that is not a shared sacrifice
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in -- >> section 3,000.a of the law awards bonus points to hospitals that spend the least per senior. >> your by-pass was successful, go home. >> what is the solution? what is the ultimate solution for the problem of so many americans not haviining health insurance? >> i think because this does not work. i prefer health saving accounts for catstrotophic care. >> patient accounts provide incentives. >> i want options and i do not want the government deciding what health care i get. >> real free markets in health
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care, like we have in food. turn scarcity into abundance. >> if we had good health care we would not have to force people to buy it. we would not need a mandate. >> we will take a break and come back, the final segment as we continue on this special edition of "hannity," we are glad you are with us. [ male announcer ] come to the golden opportunity sales event and experience the connectivity of the available lexus enform, including the es and rx. ♪ this is the pursuit of perfection. yeah... try new alka seltzer fruit chews. they work fast on heartburn and taste awesome. these are good. told ya! i'm feeling better already. [ male announcer ] new alka seltzer fruits chews. enjoy the relief!
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welcome back to "hannity." our special studio audience. monica >> welcome back to "hannity". >> we are dealing with socialized medicine, it's about government control over year life and i will give you the example. the irs commissioner this week said that he prefers not to have obama-care, he prefers the plan he has, remember that the irs -- isn't that amazing? >> they are up to their eyeballs because of abuse of power, that will be the same place enforcing your health care. they do care if you are healthy or if you have health insurance. it's about additional money coming into the federal government. >> we were talking about patient savings accounts, and -- >> you keep it simple. you allow people to spend money where they think it's needs to go. it's all about directing people to do it, as opposed to -- we can subsidize people, we are too
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pessimistic about this, look at the pieces of obama-care that are falling off. there's a dozen provisions that have been delayed, deleted or disguised. and if we can stay at this long enough, all the wheels will come off. >> the destruction that it's doing not just to the health sector, but doctors leaving the practices in droves, and what it's doing to the economy. small business owners said that just paying the fine is bigger than the profit margin. we might as well close our doors and everyone loses their jobs. >> when did we get to the point that people created a disincentive for employers to hire full time employees. >> this idea of shutting down the government to defund bomoba care is not the right strategy.
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the law is not ready for prime time. >> i have to interrupt you quickly and i will give you your time. senator lee is saying fund the government and defund obama-care. that is not shutting down the government. that's the president's choice. >> the senate will not sign it and the president will not sign it. so that will shut down the government. if you delay the subsidies for a year, the real costs will come out, people will not be ins lated and there will be fraud. what the irs said, we will not verify your income or eligibility. >> if this takes hold, name me a big government program that has ever been given and taken away? >> that is why you have to delay the subsidy. >> how many times can we allow this president to grab for power than the constitution allow congress has the responsibility, they have taken an oath to uphold and defend the constitution, they have a
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responsibility to use that defunding power to stop this president from defunding the law. >> our job is to make sure that we can beat all the community organizers in the coming months as open enrollment starts. that is our best chance to win it. at the grassroots. >> real preventive medicine does not occur in a doctor's office. it is how you eat and exercise. >> i lost my weight and you told me -- >> doctor patient -- >> that's the point. >> he did not like that i used atkins. that is how i lost 20 pounds, i was three months pregnant. >> the more people hear about obama-care, the more they like it. sorry, that is polling and
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number two, majority of -- i'm going to finish my thought the majority of americans do not want to defund it, but go ahead, good luck and try it. and good luck in 2014. >> thank you for being with us. let not your heart be troubled, the news continues. >> welcome to "red eye." you think you can dance, if you mean by dance, that means escape from the activity pit in my basement apartment. good luck, mr. hammer. andy, what is coming up? >> the top story tonight, seattle city hall advises employees not to use the word citizen or brown bag. and the most outrageous story of this or any other year, straight ahead. and san diego mayor boll filner a terrible person or an awful human being? a fair and balanced look in a moment. and you will not believe what new york city women are putting on their